Need advice about children after separation

[Disinfatuation]

I don't want to make this too long but March 2021 my wife who I am now seperated from went back to Thailand with my 2 children who are 10 and 8, both raised all life here.

Before going back I signed something she told me was just so she could leave the country with them with my permission, I questioned is this anything to do with giving her custody or control of the children which she assured me it was not.

I understood after being here 11 years and then 2 after me and her broke up she was extremely depressed and missed family so I did it because I did still love her, she broke up with me.

I requested a few things before signing which she agreed to all.

1. She will buy me a return flight at least once a year as It is her putting me in the position were I don't get to see the kids and I told her there is no way I could afford to do it myself so if I agree and sign I want this guarantee, she said absolutely fair.

2. When I come every year I will take a month off work with no pay so I will pay my own supplies, food ect but would need a place to stay as I could not afford a hotel and she said no problem I can stay with her.

She has recently said she will no longer let me stay with her but will pay for a 1 bed flat for the month which is frustrating because I want to be staying with the kids at their own home but to avoid arguments I just accept this.

She has not said she is not going to get me the flights but it has been nearly a full year since last March and anytime I ask for a rough time just to I can let the work know she just says I don't know, avoids any convo always too busy to talk and just seems to be making out that she can't do it, she recently went on holiday in Thailand and has been doing things that make me believe she can and I am just really worried and would like to know what legal routes I can go down if this goes on beyond a reasonable point.

I am trying to be very understanding she has only been back since March and obviously had to get set up and get things for the kids rooms ect but it's getting a bit ridiculous now. Her brother owns two houses so she does not need to pay for that she essentially was given a free house, I am sure she will pay him towards it but it's not the typical situation like she has pointed out when I was concerned about the kids and she reassured me she would be fine because of things like this, as if to say I only need to pay what I can towards it to help him.

What should I do ?

I should state I didn't get the two things I asked for in writing and I didn't read through the thing she asked me to sign I just asked is this something that means I am signing over parental rights to her, which she advised me it was absolutely not. I was under the impression because of Covid she just needed my permission from them to fly outside of the UK because me and her were not together and both parents had to approve it for the children's safety.

[Tobias]

Dis, welcome back! I can’t believe it’s been so long since you were active here. Time flies.

Initial question, in what language was the form you were asked to sign?

[Disinfatuation]

Hello again Tobias, it was in English. I am not actually sure what it was I didn't read through it I just asked her questions about it.

[-Keith-]

Welcome back Dis. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Looks like you've been played mate. As the saying goes, how do you tell when a women is lying, her lips move.

[Disinfatuation]

Hello again, I have requested she send me a copy to read through it but as I asked clear questions regarding it and made it clear that I would only sign as long as it's nothing that gives parental control, would that not be an issue for her if she has lied about it even though I should have read through it. At the time I just assumed it was because of covid she required both parents to agree on children leaving the country for the safety aspect of it.

[ash]

So you signed an agreement without reading it during a period where you were separating and allowed your wife to move to Thailand with your kids and now she appears to have decided she will not honour an agreement with no corroborating paperwork.

Sorry at this point you need to get legal advice as you will struggle to persuade a Thai court to support you.

As for her dishonesty no comment but she is in a much stronger position unless she moves back to the UK.

[Disinfatuation]

Dis, welcome back! I can’t believe it’s been so long since you were active here. Time flies.

Initial question, in what language was the form you were asked to sign?

I got the copy and I was wrong it was actually in Thai, does that change anything Tobias ?

[Gary & Nok]

I got the copy and I was wrong it was actually in Thai...

My twopenceworth for what it's worth, you signed a document it is up to you to know what you are signing, be it in Thai or English. Whatever it said she has the evidence to say you agreed to it.

Hopefully Mr T might have better (and more knowledgeable) response.

[livingwithathaigirl]

Curious - what happened with this? If I were separated, I wouldn't let the kids out of my sight, let alone out of Thailand. I pretty much check the location of their passports every time there's a bad period between me and my wife. Also if the kids had lived all their lives in the UK up until that point, I'd guess that would influence even the Thai courts. Welfare of the children and all that?

[Ally]

I do not have an answer for you but i will provide my observations based on the assumptions that (a) you are the father (b) both children were born in the UK (c) they have UK passports.

1.
(a) The seperation from what i can see has up to now been amicable and you are not divorced otherwise the issues around children, maitenance and care would most likely have been already adressed.

(b) You have both mutually deciced who will look after the children.

(c) Legislation of note would be the Childrens Act 1989 which in part details the roles and responsibilities or the parents/carers etc and section 2(1) states:
"Parental responsibility for children. Where a child’s father and mother were married to each other at the time of his birth, they shall each have parental responsibility for the child."

(d) In addition to UK law you may wish to be familair with the Thai Civil and Commercial Code Section Code: 1536 - 1560
"Section 1536. Husband Presumed to be Father: A child born of a woman during wedlock or within three hundred and ten days after the termination of the marriage is presumed to be the legitimate child of the husband or the man which used to be the husband, as the case may be."

(e) Both of these acts show that you are recognised as being the father of the children in both countries, UK and Thailand.

(f) Depending on where you married may have a bearing on legal proceedings for divorce, custody and access.

2.
"Before going back I signed something she told me was just so she could leave the country with them with my permission"

The use of such a document for travel is not uncommon particuarly with seperated/divorced partners, however i would suggest that you ensure you know what the content of that document in Thai actually states.

3.
"I requested a few things before signing which she agreed to all.
1. She will buy me a return flight at least once a year as It is her putting me in the position were I don't get to see the kids and I told her there is no way I could afford to do it myself so if I agree and sign I want this guarantee, she said absolutely fair.

2. When I come every year I will take a month off work with no pay so I will pay my own supplies, food ect but would need a place to stay as I could not afford a hotel and she said no problem I can stay with her."

It would appear that no form of Child Arrangement Order was formally put in place and as such i doubt she has any obligation to adhere the the verbal agreement. Arrangements for your child

A ‘child arrangements order’ decides:

• where your child lives
• when your child spends time with each parent
• when and what other types of contact take place (phone calls, for example)

Conclusion:
Your next steps will need a lot of careful consideration as I am sure you are aware.
If you both seek a divorce, under what juridiction will that be conducted under, UK or Thailand.
Child support, how will that be arranged? Under Thai Law it would appear that mainteneance will be paid until the child is 20 years of age.

All this has to be managed whilst trying to be respectful of one another as now having limited or no control over matters regarding the children, their upbringing, schooling etc makes this a delicate process.

I hope this is of some assitance and good luck.
Cheers
Ally

[Ally]

I just noticed that this was January 2022 !! I wont delete the post on the off chance its of assistance to someone else.

[livingwithathaigirl]

It could potentially be of help to a few people here, I'd guess. For example my wife quite often mutters about going back to Thailand, the grass being greener and all that. She still eats Thai food most of the time and watches Thai news and TV every day rather than UK or world versions. She's on Facebook all the time seeing what her old friends and family are doing, knows all the details, much more than anything happening locally where we actually live. Every time there's the slightest bump in the road, Thailand is often mentioned as an answer that would solve everything.

Our kids are basically British, with British manners and sensibilities. They have been raised in the UK, hardly speak any Thai and even if they did it would be a disaster for them, especially out in the sticks, with their life chances much reduced. However, every time we go back for a holiday together and the wife is seduced by not having any responsibilities, I can hear her mind ticking away so I'm on guard...

[melnathan]

Your wifes attitude sound just like my wife . However we are very happy and the only thing stopping us going home to visit is the cost. Plus we have no children in our marriage. Hope everything turns out well for you.

[elvisp]

All i can say that it is an incredible difficult decision for a Thai lady to leave Thailand to live in the UK or any other country...to leave her culture, family and friends behind is not easy at all...motives for leaving are very different i think..i've got two children with my Thai wife and would find it unbearable if they went back to Thailand....they are so happy here in the UK and doing very well at school...most Thai ladies seem able to adjust here but it's not for everybody...

Cheers..

[Fruit Machine]

I don't have anything to add concerning the OP which was posted over a year ago anyway.

This thread has morphed into gereralities regarding Thai women living in the UK, and as many of us (the UK-based ones) are in this situation it's useful to let others know of our experiences.

My wife is happy here, and has settled well. She has a British passport so in theory can flex her wings if she wants to. However up till now she hasn't indicated any desire to return home, and hasn't visited Thailand since before covid. Her son is in his GCSE year at high school and will almost certainly be staying on into the 6th form, followed by university quite possibly. That ties her down for the next 2 - 3 years at least, after which she could, if she wanted, start spending some time back in Thailand. My feeling is she will take advantage of that and, at the very least, visit more often. The big thing IMO that would be a major stumbling block to her moving back to Thailand permanently would be money. She has a good job here and would struggle to get anywhere near her current income in Thailand.

So what about me, you may ask? I have no intention of relocating to Thailand at my age (72). I am in reasonable health but cannot presume this will continue. I’d be happy to visit for a month or two at a time, but not to settle. I also feel it would be most unlikely my step-son, having lived here since he was 9 years old, would be in the slightest bit interested in moving to live in Thailand. All his friends are here and most of his life experiences have been here.

This is of course just a snapshot of how our situation appears to me in early 2023. It’s just a prediction. Who really knows what the future holds for us? For anyone?