Parental rights advice.

[Ally]

My girlfriend (well recently made ex-girlfriend) and I have a 2 year old son who lives with her in Thailand.

I am not seeking for our son to live with me in the UK, well not yet anyway, however I would like to have some legal control/say over his future care, moral guidance (not religious), education etc.

I live and work in the UK, visit as often as I can and support them both finacially.

My question is; can I apply to the court or have drawn up a legally binding document that gives me rights as a father to decisions made about my sons future. My understanding is that his mother currently has 100% say / control over his future so to speak and as we are not married or live together I will more than likely have 0%. I would like to eventually have a 50/50 split over decisions about our childs upbringing.

To future proof myself and our childs future what steps would people suggest I take.

Everything between me and the mother is very amicable at present. Our child has a UK passport and I am named as the father on the Thai birth certificate (born in Bangkok).

Cheers
Ally.

[andye]

I would already think that you have all the rights that you desire.
As the named father on the child's birth certificate, you are automatically granted those rights.
There are legal docs that surrender sole custody to either parent......if this has not been done you will still have the normal parental rights.
The mother could pertision for sole custody on grounds of abandonment and lack of support.but you say you are maintaining these. But I would say that you are a long way away, she still may have grounds.
Flip side......this being Thailand, being male you will have predominant rights over the child.
I't has been known that fathers have removed their children from there mothers, and have given them to their actual wives.

I hope you think hard and long before doing anything. A very young child needs stability and security, which is not often governed by financial status.
I hope my reply answers some of your questions.
andye

[ian1208]

Flip side......this being Thailand, being male you will have predominant rights over the child.
I't has been known that fathers have removed their children from there mothers, and have given them to their actual wives.

Sorry Andye, how do you come to this conclusion?
If there is one country in the world where the saying ' possession is 9/10ths of the law' rings true, it is Thailand.

[andye]

Sorry Andye, how do you come to this conclusion?
If there is one country in the world where the saying ' possession is 9/10ths of the law' rings true, it is Thailand.

It was not a conclusion.......I was in Sakon Nakon when a now friend had her youngster taken away from her.
This tends to happen more when the child is male.........Females are ten a penny.
No such thing as equality of the sexes in Thailand. Or didn't you know that 55555.

[jimmbo60]

Females are ten a penny.
.

Mine's priceless

[andye]

Mines very precious.......especially as she is only 6 years old.

[Ally]

I started this thread a while ago and I appologise for not following it up as best as I should have. I have spent a lot of time on 'Google' and not really come up with any firm solutions, however I did unearth some interesting threads and points of law that may not expressly suit my circumstances but may assist others in their endeavours.

The first and most interesting thread i read was posted on Thaivisa. The thread is entitled International Child Custody Issues and Thai Courts. The thread is long and very well written provide plenty of advice.

The second point of interest i found is featured on Thailawonline.com. Under the 'Family tab' there is the heading Custody of a child in Thailand / Thai law.

This page outlines some of the basics of Thai law in particular a deffinition of 'parental power' as defined under Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand. Some aspects of this i feel will lend themselves to the basis of my current situation for example;

In most Western countries, the Mother and Father of the child get equal rights and obligations. Under Thai Law, this isn't the case. According to section 1546 of CCCT, when a child is born and the mother is NOT married to the father, the father has no LEGAL RIGHTS over the child. Only the mother has rights (and obligations) over the child.
A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.

My search continues and as I find more I will post my finidngs. I hope this is of use to someone in the future.

Cheers
Ally

[9851colle]

What I can tell you is that from going through an adoption early this year of my wife's 2 sons, now our two sons, is that under UK law If the child was born after 2005 then the farther has parental responsibility - even if you were not married. That's all I know and can help regarding this matter..

Mick..

[Skippy]

"A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER."

This is obviously where the Phor kopor 14 comes into play when applying for Uk visa( which the ex wife and I used to get her daughter to the uk) - if enough people go to the amphur and swear that the father is not part of tghe childs life or supporting the child then it must be true!!

- Skippy

[MaM Korat]

However there are three ways to be a legitimate father in Thailand.

One is that you marry with the mother of your child;
Second is that you and the mother of your child and the child go to the Amphur to register the legitimacy.
Third is that you apply to the court requesting to be a legitimate father and get joint custody.

[Ally]

Well I have made enquiries with a legal company based in Bangkok. This is their preliminary reply / advice in response to a series of emails and legality questionaire;

We understand that you have a child with an unmarried Thai woman and your name is recorded as the father of the child on the birth certificate. You would like to apply to the Court for legitimization of the child. You will also conduct a DNA test this week, in order to establish paternity.

Under Section 1547 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code (“CCC”), a child born of a woman who is not married to a man is deemed to be the legitimate child of such woman. While the birth certificate may indicate the identity of the biological father, it does not bestow parentage rights on the unmarried father. Therefore, it is the unmarried mother who has sole legal custody over this child under Thai law.

The grounds for the Court to grant legitimization are contained in Section 1555 of the Civil and Commercial Code as follows:

1. Where there is a rape, abduction or illegal confinement of the mother during the period when conception could have taken place;
2. Where there has been an elopement or seduction of the mother during the period where conception could have taken place;
3. Where there is a document emanating from the father and acknowledging the child as his own;
4. Where it appears in the Birth Register that the child is a son or daughter of the man who notified the birth, or such notification was made with the knowledge of the man;
5. Where there has been open cohabitation of the father and mother during the period when conception could have taken place;
6. Where the father had sexual intercourse with the mother during the period when conception could have taken place, and there are grounds to believe that he or she is not the child of another man;
7. Where there has been a continuous common repute of being a legitimate child. The status of continuous common repute is established by means of facts showing the relationship of father and child, as evidenced by the child’s connection with the family to which he claims to belong, such as the fact that the father has provided the child’s education or maintenance, or that he has allowed the child to use his family name, or other facts.

Although you already have proof that you are the father of the child, the case might be more complicated, and it would prolong the court proceedings, if the mother of the child does not consent to the legitimization.

Court Proceedings

Once the petition is filed with the Court, you will have to meet with the Juvenile Observation Officer (“JOO”). The meeting with the JOO must be scheduled within 14 days from the date of filing the petition, though the meeting does not have to be held within that 14 days. In practice, we would need to wait at least one week before contacting the JOO to schedule the meeting, because they will not likely have received the documents from the court before that time. Following the meeting, the JOO will have to prepare their comments and send them to the Court seven days before the first hearing. The Court will schedule the first hearing between 45-60 days from the filing date.
With regard to the court proceeding, it is likely to take three to six months to obtain the court order, provided the mother of the child consents to the legitimization.

If you succeed in the application to the Court for legitimization, you can go to the District Office and register the legitimization. You would also be able to apply to the Court for custody or visitation rights in the event that this cannot be agreed with the mother of the child.

The retainer fee for the lawyer to act on my behalf is 300,000THB

Ally