Divorce Assets

[Flip]

A friend of mine who is not a member here called me yesterday telling me he is going through a rocky time with his (Thai) wife and it looks like they are going to divorce.

They were married 2 years ago at a Bangkok Amphur and lived in Thailand for the first year before coming to live in the UK. They don't have any children.

He presumed they would return to Thailand to get divorced but his wife wants to divorce here. He suspects that she wants this because she is going to try and make a claim on his assets.

As I understand it, under Thai law his wife would only be entitled to a share of any assets that were accumulated AFTER they were married but I'm not sure if that's the case in the UK.

I'm pretty sure that even though they were married in Thailand, UK law would apply here and his wife may be entitled to some of his assets even though he held them before they were married. Am I correct?

[Tobias]

It really doesn't matter where they divorce, the law here doesn't change. What, if anything, she may be entitled to depends on all their particular circumstances so impossible to say. Even if divorced in Thailand, the wife could still petition the British courts for a financial order.

[Flip]

Thanks Tobias - I'll pass that on but why is this so? Because they have lived in the UK or because he is a British citizen?

I know very little about his assets except for the fact that he has a house in the UK - I'm pretty sure he had that before they were married. Is it possible that she would be able to make a claim against that property as a whole or just on any increase in value since they were married?

[sumrit]

When my first Thai wife and I first separated we lived in the UK and she was told by the housing officer at the local council (when she applied for a flat) she needed a legal separation so they arranged for her to see a solicitor. The first thing the solicitor did was register an interest in my house with land registry. This meant I couldn't sell, or even remortgage, without her consent.

We were actually married and divorced under Thai law in Thailand but that didn't stop her having a claim on my house in the UK, even though I owned the house before we were married and paid for everything (bills, maintenance, home improvements, new furniture, day to day living costs, etc, etc.) while we were married.

[Tobias]

That is exactly right sumrit. It really does not matter where you divorce, the British courts can still be petitioned.

As for the solicitor, s/he was simply protecting your wife's possible interest in the property. Whether a wife is entitled to any share depends a great deal on all the circumstances including the length of the relationship and the contribution to the 'family home' that is made by the wife.

Out interest, did you make a payment to wife eventually or was the caution/restriction simply removed?

[sumrit]

That is exactly right sumrit. It really does not matter where you divorce, the British courts can still be petitioned.

Out interest, did you make a payment to wife eventually or was the caution/restriction simply removed?

I'd owned my house for twenty five years before we married and we were together for eight years before we separated so I offered her 25% of the profit when it was sold, gave her all the furniture (I was moving to Thailand anyway) and the two rai of land we'd bought to build a house on in Chiang Mai as I couldn't own it anyway. She accepted the offer.

[BigRed]

and the two rai of land we'd bought to build a house on in Chiang Mai as I couldn't own it anyway.

would the British courts take the land into account even though the Thai courts wouldn't ?

[Flip]

Bigred, I was divorced in Thailand and both my wife and I had to sign some form of declaration that we had agreed our finances. From what Tobias is saying though, that would not prevent a wife petitioning a UK court in reference to a financial settlement.

If you are referring to land in Thailand - I doubt the UK courts have any jurisdiction over foreign land and therefore would only be able to enforce an order on assets held in the UK - Tobias?

Remember also that if your wife buys land in Thailand, you have to sign a declaration that the money used to buy that land is hers and that you will not make any claim against it.

[brian99]

I'd owned my house for twenty five years before we married and we were together for eight years before we separated so I offered her 25% of the profit when it was sold, gave her all the furniture (I was moving to Thailand anyway) and the two rai of land we'd bought to build a house on in Chiang Mai as I couldn't own it anyway. She accepted the offer.

Does anyone know what the situation would be in a case like mine-only assets in the form of savings in the UK, mainly from a house sale which I owned outright before marriage, but which I sold after marriage when I came to live in Thailand. We have been married six years and have no kids, what claim would she have on those savings, and what claim would I have (not interested to pursue) on her savings and property? If she demanded half of what I have then could somebody in my position do the same? i.e. enforce the selling of the house up country and land that she holds in her name, but in which her parents live. seems like these divorce settlements benefit one side more than another. Her house was also hers before we married.

[sumrit]

would the British courts take the land into account even though the Thai courts wouldn't ?

I don't think the UK courts have any jurisdiction over any assets in Thailand (Tobias will correct me if I'm wrong) and likewise the Thai courts don't have any jurisdiction over assets outside Thailand.

Does anyone know what the situation would be in a case like mine-only assets in the form of savings in the UK, mainly from a house sale which I owned outright before marriage, but which I sold after marriage when I came to live in Thailand. We have been married six years and have no kids, what claim would she have on those savings, and what claim would I have (not interested to pursue) on her savings and property?

Firstly I'm no expert but I have been through an Amphur divorce.

If you divorce in the Amphur in Thailand both parties have to agree everything between themselves first, the Amphur can't mediate. From memory you have to agree on three things:

1. What has been agreed over any children from the marriage and who will have custody, etc.
2. What has been agreed over any property/land aquired in Thailand DURING the marriage.
3. What has been agreed over any other assets/money aquired in Thailand DURING the marriage.

As I said previously the Amphur has no jurisdiction over any assets/property outside Thailand and any aquired by either person BEFORE the marriage remains with that person unless otherwise agreed.

If your wife wanted to claim anything from your assets in the UK she would have to do so in a UK court and, as far as I'm aware, travel to the UK to do so.

In my case my ex wife had lived (and still does) in the UK for all of our marriage and had aquired British Citizenship some five years before our separation so I decided it was easier to agree a sum than drag it through the courts, which could take time, delay the sale of the house and delay my moving to Thailand. She then came to Thailand on holiday for the divorce two/three years later.

[BigRed]

I don't think the UK courts have any jurisdiction over any assets in Thailand (Tobias will correct me if I'm wrong) and likewise the Thai courts don't have any jurisdiction over assets outside Thailand.

I'm not questioning that, but say as a couple you own a house in the Uk and Thailand of equal value, even though the Thai court says the Thai house is hers alone, would the UK regard it as an even split?

I'm not saying the UK would be able to give you share of her house, just take it into consideration when considering the UK property

[Flip]

I'm guessing but UK justice is usually pretty fair. I think that if you could prove you have an interest in the Thai house and have lost that, the UK court could be persuaded to take that into account if your wife tried to make a claim on your UK assets. I'd like to think that a UK court would take a couple's total assets into consideration, regardless of the fact that you didn't legally own the land in Thailand.

This is something I've never considered Bigred and I would also be interested to know the legal position. It would be a bit of a devil if you paid for a house in Thailand and your wife could keep that and a large slice of your UK assets too.

[sumrit]

say as a couple you own a house in the Uk and Thailand of equal value, even though the Thai court says the Thai house is hers alone, would the UK regard it as an even split?

I'm not saying the UK would be able to give you share of her house, just take it into consideration when considering the UK property

A solicitor at the time told me no, the UK court wouldn't take the land we'd (I'd) bought in Thailand as part of our assets. Whether that was simply because I hadn't got (and probably couldn't get) any documentation relating to it I'm not sure.

The land itself wasn't worth that much and I just wanted everything resolved quickly at the time so didn't pursue it.

[Tobias]

I'm not questioning that, but say as a couple you own a house in the Uk and Thailand of equal value, even though the Thai court says the Thai house is hers alone, would the UK regard it as an even split?

I'm not saying the UK would be able to give you share of her house, just take it into consideration when considering the UK property

It would not be the Thai courts who would say that but Thai law - not to mention that little document that was signed saying all the money used to buy the house/land was the Thai partner's and that the farang has no interest in it.

All that said, it all depends on the circumstances of the parties concerned and the respective values of the matrimonial assets. Under Thai law it is clear the farang has no interest in the land/property - as well as that declaration the farang has signed. Should the Thai partner produce that document with a certified translation then the courts would have to take it at face value.

That notwithstanding, as Flip has already said, the courts here would want to find the most equitable solution and if the issue is properly argued before the court then I can see a judge taking the Thai land/property/business in to consideration when reaching an order for ancillary relief. Obviously the court could not order the transfer of ownership to the farang - but he could attach a "value" to it and consider that value in his order.

As I always say in this regard, every case if different. Family law is one of the more complicated areas of law and unfortunately there is no 'black and white' answer to this question nor to the question of 'how much is my spouse entitled to?' It is all about the circumstances and needs of the parties concerned.